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Tuesday, July 20, 2010

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keshto

Hi
Interesting read although I do think that an average per inning would be more insightfull then the usual way of calculating averages(with the not out rule which for me doesn't make sense, as we want to know how many runs a player is likely to add in an inning).

Dhoni will still figure at the top but won't be in number two position.

Must say I've been impressed with Dhoni the Test batsman these last two years.

The Reverse Sweep

Thanks for the comment Keshto. Interesting point about whether to include not outs. I see where you are coming from, but personally I like to see a batsman rewarded for getting a not out. Dhoni has proved to be an excellent captain and batsman these past two years

keshto

yes but the not out distorts the averages too much in my opinion. And Dhoni batting down would of course have a higher average than others, easier to stay not out batting down than not out at the top.

Still he would have the same average as Brian Lara for example so not a small feat!

Mahek

I don't think a player's average is a function of his position in the batting order. People forget that batting at 6 or 7 reduces the number of chances you get to score a double or triple hundred. Also, there are times when you come in with the side looking to declare and have to go after the bowlers. Other times, you come in with the side in trouble and your job is to try and save the game. You also have to shepherd the tail which isn't as easy as it seems.

VVS Laxman is a classsic example of a batsman who has had to deal with all three of these for a major part of his career. He averages around 46 and you have to look at the numerous fifties he's got batting at 5 or 6 to see how he hasn't scored as many runs as he should. Pity he has been kept away from the number 3 spot even though Dravid has been way below his best for over four years now.

Russ

keshto, most studies I've seen on this question indicate that - taken from any particular point in their innings - a batsman tends to make their average score. Thus, counting the not-outs as we do does give the best indication of over-all average.

The Reverse Sweep

Keshto, I have to agree with Mahek and Russ. It's the way it has always been done, so I guess that excluding not outs from a batsman's average probably won't ever happen. Whatever the formula, Dhoni will have a big challenge to keep this level of performance up as his tenure as captain continues

keshto

I appreciate your view points, but don't agree with them. Doesn't matter where you bat, the average per inning will tell you more precisely how much a player will contribute in an innings more often than the average with not outs, Dhoni will not score 70+ runs per innings ever.
Of course given time his average is going to come closer to his innings average (especially if he moves down the order)

I don't see why not outs should be rewarded as if he is not out his reward will be quite a few runs, I don't see bowlers getting the same advantage of cutting down an over to calculate S/R or Wickets per innings or etc...

I know batsmen will always be favored but this is carrying it a bit too much in my opinion and doesn't make any logical sens in my opinion.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree!!


Mahek

Eh? Average is defined as runs/wicket for batsmen as well as bowlers. A bowler's strike rate is defined as balls/wicket. Sure you can bring in a runs/innings figure for a batsman, but then what? It's not like Bradman averaged 100 runs an innings either, he scored 100 or more in about a third of the innings he batted.

goutham

no dhoni is the worst captain, wat the team india is now is a product of sourav ganguly, the most successful captain, no one can over come hom... dada rockz...

The Reverse Sweep

Agreed that Ganguly was a very good captain and much as Nasser did for England, he left the Indian side in a really good position. But I think Dhoni has done well so far too.

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